Podcast: Women in IT – less stereotypes, more opportunities

Author: Zuzana Kocáková

Podcasts

30. 04. 2025 29 reading minutes

She learned about programming from her sister, found her first IT job in testing, and today she’s diving even deeper into software development. In his podcast Na mojom kompe to ide, Michal Hucko interviewed our very own Xenia. Tune in to hear more about why testing can be the ideal entry point into the world of IT, what skills are essential in this field, and how women are thriving in the IT world.

Welcome to the podcast Na mojom kompe to ide. My name is Miso Hucko, and in this podcast, we discuss interesting IT topics and interview people who have something to say about the world of technology.

Today, we welcome Xenia Richnakova, with whom we will talk about women in IT in Slovakia and what working in software testing looks like. Let’s start broadly – how did you actually get into IT? When did you decide that this was your path?

Truthfully, it wasn’t that I told myself back in high school: “I want to get into IT.” I originally wanted to study chemistry or biotechnology. But the more I learned about it, the more I realised that working with data, data mining, and automating different processes plays a big role there. And that’s when it started to make sense for me to understand at least the basics of programming.

Then, my plans changed a bit – I wanted to go abroad to study, ended up taking a gap year, and I also spent some time in Germany. And that’s where it all turned around. Thanks to my sister, who is a programmer, I learned that there was a tester job. I had no idea that such a role even existed, but it sounded interesting – so I gave it a try.

And I found out that I actually enjoyed it. I started learning more, discovering new things, and eventually, I went from chemistry to the IT world.

So, it was your sister who got you into IT. That’s very similar to my experience with my brother. When I started programming, he did too. I think it’s perfectly normal for people at secondary school not to know what they want to do yet. It often emerges and takes shape naturally. So, was your first contact with IT really thanks to your sister? Or was it already present in your family? Did your parents encourage you to use technology?

I would say it came mainly through my older sister. However, when I was 16 or 17, I started to take a greater interest in the job market. Since then, I’ve had part-time jobs wherever I could find them. I wanted to travel, so I earned money for my own trips. At the same time, I observed the expectations placed on people in different roles.

I came across terms like Python, SQL, started researching more about it, watching videos and tutorials. So even in high school, there was a spark of interest, even though I hadn’t yet decided that I was going to dive into programming fully.

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That’s great. When I was in high school, my life revolved around computers and games. After school, my friends and I would turn on League of Legends, and that was it. Was it the same for you?

I used to play games, but more in elementary school. It was also League of Legends. In high school, it was more about friends and traveling; I didn’t have as much time for gaming anymore. I was more interested in how things worked – the technical stuff – rather than the actual gaming. As you say, the vast majority of people come to programming through games, which I think is really cool.

Sure, so the best way to get into programming is to play League of Legends. The next step is to go to a IT university and study something related to programming. Just kidding! The path to IT can come from many different directions. Now tell me – what do you like best about IT? What do you enjoy most about this field?

For me, the number one thing is that I enjoy the work. I get up in the morning and look forward to it – and I think that’s what matters most. I see programming as a game – it’s like solving logic problems or puzzles. You have challenges in front of you that are sometimes difficult, but the feeling when you solved something is amazing. That’s what I enjoy most about it.

Exactly – it’s about finding solutions, exploring, and discovering. And if you enjoy it, you’ve won. Btw, are you studying programming at university or have you already finished?

I’m currently in my first year. I am studying at an online university in Prague; the field is called Software Development. I think it’s nice to have formal education, but it’s not essential. You can be a good programmer without it. It’s more about what you want – your expectations and where you want to go in the IT world.

I often compare it to being an eye doctor, for example. You can do a specialised course on laser surgery, learn the technique, but without knowing how the whole body works, you lack context. And it’s the same with programming. You can specialise in a specific thing – frontend, backend, databases – but some knowledge gaps simply remain without formal education. Formal education can give you the foundation you need sometimes.

I see, so it’s mostly about what you expect from it. Specialisation can be nice, but a broad overview is also important. Another thing – you mentioned that you started working while you were still in high school. How did you actually get your first IT position?

Those first part-time jobs were not in IT. They were retail jobs – Kaufland, clothing stores, etc. I didn’t start in IT until after I graduated from high school. First, I went to Germany for half a year, but I came back earlier than planned. And then I “accidentally” got a position as a tester. I was in the right place at the right time – companies were hiring aggressively at the time. This was before the AI boom.

My advantage was that I speak German. The company wasn’t looking for someone with a technical background; rather, they wanted someone who could learn the business and understand how the product should work from the user’s perspective. This is often more important in testing than coding itself.

“You can enter the IT industry without university – all you need is motivation, language skills, and the right opportunity.”

This is a great example of how you can get into IT without a degree. Sometimes you really just need to pursue opportunities, be prepared, and know the language. And at the same time, testing often acts as a gateway – a lot of people start there. Do you agree that you can get into IT through testing without being a programmer?

I totally agree. I know several people who came into IT this way, indirectly. Because the whole software development cycle isn’t just about writing code. There’s a huge process behind it and many different roles – from analysts to testers.

And that’s exactly what’s great: you can gradually choose the direction that suits you. You start as a tester, and if you find you’re more interested in communicating with people and business, you move into an analyst or team leader role. If you’re drawn to the technical side, you can shift towards programming. It’s all about what you want and where you want to go.

A lot of people don’t even know what testing actually is. How would you describe it to someone who has no idea?

Testing is basically quality assurance. Imagine a team of programmers. Every day they commit something to the repository, i.e., they add new code or make changes according to the requirements from the customer, product team, or analysts. Those developers are like “builders” – they assemble the application piece by piece.

Then there’s the tester. Their role is to verify that what’s been programmed works as intended – and, most importantly, to ensure that no unrelated parts of the code were accidentally broken in the process.

It’s a critical role because IT is a relatively young industry. For instance, twenty years ago, testing was very different. In the 1990s, there was little focus on testing. Often, developers would just click through the software briefly, and that was it. The result? Customers received applications that didn’t work as expected, were full of bugs, and required users to test the software themselves. That’s far from ideal because customer-side testing is the most expensive form of testing.

Today, testers play a vital role in the team – they safeguard quality, ensure functionality, and prevent unintended side effects. The earlier a bug is caught, the lower the cost to fix it.

Testers are essential – they ensure everything works. The earlier a bug is found, the cheaper the fixes are.

Does one have to know programming to be a tester?

It depends on the company. Some positions require no programming knowledge – just curiosity, a willingness to learn, and strong communication skills. For example, when I started, the only requirement was fluency in German. The technical skills came later.

What were your first months like?

The initial two to three months involved onboarding, learning the application, and understanding the business processes it supported. Testers typically join projects that are already underway, not when only three lines of code exist.

In my case, it was a project for a German health insurance company, so I had to familiarise myself with the concepts of healthcare, understand the business logic, and read a lot of user stories. Shortly after that, I also started learning test automation tools, so I later moved more into automated testing. In practice, this means that every day you troubleshoot the application, keep track of the changes the programmers have added, test them, look for bugs, and monitor what failed where. And that’s essentially the day-to-day work of a tester.

So, if I understand correctly, you are testing user stories – that is, specific scenarios of what the customer does in the app. For example, in a bank it would be sending money; in your case, it’s features specific to an insurance company. So you’re effectively playing the customer, clicking through the app, and when something goes wrong, you document it and send feedback to the developers.

Exactly.

Many people mistakenly think that testing is just about clicking and finding bugs, but you also mentioned testing through code – automation. Can you explain this in a simpler way?

The point of automated tests is to verify that something that worked before hasn’t been broken by the new feature. This all clicked for me when I was making my own basic video library app. I had video uploading, searching, specifications. And when I added a plain combo box with preset genres, it broke my search. That’s exactly it – you change one thing, and it breaks something completely different. And this was a very simple app.

And that’s what automated tests are all about: ensuring that what worked once still works. This way, testers don’t have to manually repeat the same sequence of steps over and over again. It’s more efficient than clicking through it manually repeatedly, and it saves time and stress considerably.

So the idea is to find the bugs through an automated process so you don’t have to keep doing it over and over again. And if anyone would like to become a colleague of Xenia – msg life has job offers, particularly for German speakers and Java developers.

Yes, exactly. And testers are welcome too – we’re always looking for new people.

And how many of you are currently in the team?

There are a lot of us together on my project. It’s really a mega project. But I mostly work with four other Slovak colleagues. And I use German every day – the whole app and user stories are in German.

Great, language skills are a really big plus. At least English and German open even more doors. Now for a classic question – if a team has a tester, does it mean that developers don’t have to write tests?

No, that’s definitely not the case. Every developer should test their part – do unit tests. The tester then deals more with integration – i.e., whether the new feature broke something else, or whether all the components still work together. Both roles are important, and everyone should test their part.

Exactly. You complement each other. I know the feeling. My tests always pass until someone else gets involved. The tester looks at it from a different angle – more through the eyes of the user. And that’s what makes their role valuable. Do you have a lot of testers in your company?

Yes, we have many. This is precisely what highlights their importance. If that were not the case, it would be a significant loss for the company.

Testing on customers is the most expensive. In insurance software, this could mean a real problem for the client – and the company can’t afford that. What about you personally – do you want to stay in testing?

I’m basically already in that transition phase. I knew from the beginning that I was going to be drawn more to the technical stuff. I’m attracted to programming. So yeah – my goal is to eventually go fully into development.

And what language are you currently programming in?

Until recently, we only worked on the project in our internal automated testing tool, which is Selenium-based. But it wasn’t quite proper programming yet. At the moment, we are looking for a more suitable modern tool.

If someone wants to start testing, what should they learn? A programming language or something specific to testing?

The best way is to look at job portals like Profesia.sk and find out what companies really require, what they want a person to know. And orientate yourself accordingly.

Sometimes those adverts are written in such a way that one should know 20 technologies, which isn’t quite normal. In your company, which technologies are preferred?

It definitely depends mainly on the project. Everyone has their basic requirements – somewhere, basic SQL work is expected, somewhere else, at least the basics of some programming language. This can vary not only among companies but also within different teams in the same company.

Exactly as you said, getting into testing is often easier than, say, a programming position. And once you’re in testing and you’re thinking about moving further into programming – what’s the next step? Does one need to improve in a particular language? Is it easier from a tester position, or would it be easier to go straight into a programming position?

The fact that I had no technical skills at all at the beginning made testing a great start for me. It helped me understand the basic concepts, how a computer actually works, and what the mental processes are in the code. And most importantly – you can learn a lot there without immediately starting to dive into the code. Sure, if someone knows they want to go into pure programming, they can go straight into it. But if they’re still exploring what they enjoy, testing is the perfect starting point.

“If you don’t know exactly what you want to do in IT, a tester position is the perfect place to start.”

Do you want to become a programmer? Are you going in this direction full-force? You mentioned that you program in JavaScript. Why JavaScript?

We started with JavaScript in the very first year at university. And it suited me – it’s the language of the web and it connected perfectly with what I was doing at work. Work and school went hand in hand.

So are you planning to go the frontend route, or are you also attracted to the backend?

Hard to say. We’re just at that stage now where I’m also terribly curious to see how things will develop in IT, mainly because of artificial intelligence. For now I’m into websites, so more frontend, but I’m keeping the door open. I still want to try a lot of things. That’s what university is great for, it shows you what different areas there are in IT. And then you can choose where you want to see yourself.

So you’re leaving the door open. Is it hard to get started with JavaScript?

It’s hard to say if there is an ideal language to start with. But JavaScript is pretty high level. There are all sorts of things that don’t need to be addressed. Those are exactly the mental processes and concepts I was talking about. You don’t see how the computer works. For example, in JavaScript, I don’t care that I’m overflowing an array now, because I have some dynamic array that changes itself. I don’t deal with it like in C. And it’s questionable whether it’s better to start with a high-level language and go into programming more superficially or start with a low-level one like C and go from the basics all the way in. Everyone has a different path.

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Was it easy for you to switch to JavaScript? You’re studying maths now, but before that, you were at an online university where you didn’t really get much exposure to those low-level languages like C and C++. It’s quite likely that now at your faculty, those lower-level languages will pile up on you. It will then be interesting to compare whether JavaScript is actually easier, or just looks easier because it solves a lot of things for you. In my experience, if one goes the route of high-level languages like JavaScript, one may never even get to C – and often there’s no need to.

I definitely think so. In hindsight, it was a good decision for me. But it certainly wasn’t easy. It took me a long time to grasp the concepts of promises, synchronous code, and the mental processes required for programming. It was like being told to calculate an integral when you’re still learning basic fractions at school.

I think that’s one of the biggest frustrations when someone starts programming. I’d like to learn the very basics first – like “if statements” or “for loops” – but the internet is full of tutorials for much more advanced stuff. And then you don’t know where to start.

That’s exactly what I see in comments under my videos. I do content about the very basics, and people ask, “How do I turn this into a website?” Well… you need to go through dozens of other steps, watch a hundred other videos, and build on that over time. The basics are really important, and without them, it’s hard to move on. You’re getting ready for university – are you excited?

Very much so. Especially since it will no longer be online but in person. I’m very much looking forward to it.

I am a proponent of formal study. I like that you chose a Slovak school. Have you considered going abroad?

I definitely have – I even studied there for a while. It was a motivation for me to learn better English and German. I think it will soon be almost essential to know at least two or three languages in Europe. We are quite limited to our region, and it is languages that open up new possibilities.

And what finally convinced you to stay in Slovakia?

Probably the fact that, for me, home is not about the place but about the people. If I feel like going to explore the world and live somewhere else, I will. But for now, I don’t feel like it. And the big benefit of this industry is that you just need a laptop and the internet – and you can work from anywhere.

I know very well what you’re talking about. I work for a foreign company, and it really doesn’t matter where I am. That’s the beauty of programming – you can work from anywhere. And languages? Those are absolutely essential. I’m not even going to ask if a programmer needs English. In your case, even German. It’s great that you motivate people to improve their language skills.

But let’s move on to another, very topical subject – women in IT. When you say “programmer,” most people still think of a man sitting behind a computer all day. I have a video on my channel, and it’s very popular. Many agree that we just love stereotyping programmers. Do you think programming is only for men?

Certainly not. I think the first programmers were women. During the Second World War, when there weren’t enough men, they were replaced by women. And they did it brilliantly. But that huge gender gap is still rooted in historical and social patterns. We live in a patriarchal society – most company directors are men, and politics is dominated by men. It is something that has been going on for hundreds of years.

“Women in IT need more role models and fewer stereotypes.”

Little boys are told from childhood: “Be strong, be smart, take care of others.” Girls are told, “Be pretty, take care of the house, be a good mum.” These traditional roles have been shaped and passed down for generations. Society functioned as it was most efficient for survival at the time. The man was physically stronger, providing, and the woman raised children and managed the home.

And now we can’t expect that, in the last couple of decades, everything would change overnight. If we want a shift, we need to start with young children. And I feel that this is already happening – for example, even in kindergartens today, children are being guided differently.

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I totally agree. By the way, how does it actually happen that two female programmers come out of the family? It’s not really common. What did your parents do differently? Were they part of the IT world as well? Or did they have a goal from the beginning to raise female programmers?

I suppose they just bought us a Nintendo at the right time, and that’s where it started.

I take that as top parenting advice! I’m a dad now, and I’m considering buying my kid a Nintendo. But seriously – were your parents supportive?

100% yes. Dad was a big gamer – in fact, he still is. So throughout my childhood, we played games, solved logical problems, and always tried something new. And that stayed with me. In our house, it was never suggested that “this is not for a girl” or “play with dolls.”

And that’s the difference. Boys are encouraged to think logically, to solve problems, to challenge themselves. Girls are often steered more towards aesthetics, dolls, or kitchens. And these differences shape how a child thinks and what they enjoy, right from childhood.

So it wasn’t like that with you. The parental influence was oriented in a different direction.

Exactly. And that was probably the key difference.

Okay, it was the parents, but parenting isn’t just about them. It’s also about the environment in which one grows up. When you look back at your classmates – did your school encourage you to go into IT?

Absolutely not. When I was in primary school, such things were not talked about at all. I hope it’s different today, that schools are modernising their approach and encouraging children more in logical thinking and coding.

And if you look at your classmates from high school, there probably aren’t many female programmers, right?

No. From my childhood, it’s just my sister.

A lot of people think that if they don’t get into programming in high school, they’ve missed their chance. What high school did you go to?

I went to a grammar school.

There probably weren’t programming classes every other day where they taught you Pascal or Python?

No, our IT education was pretty weak. We messed around with Excel and Word, nothing special. Yes, those are useful skills, but that’s only a fraction of what we could have learnt.

That’s a shame, if we don’t teach kids in high school the basics of algorithmic thinking, like what a condition is, etc. That’s such a hard concept to understand later…

You can hardly expect someone to teach what they don’t know themselves. They haven’t been guided to do so and don’t have the mental processes they can pass on. It’s just challenging.

I’ve come across companies that have quotas – for example, they must have a certain percentage of women in their team. Do you ever get the feeling that women are given preference not because of their abilities, but just because they are women? And do you think that’s the right way to go?

Honestly, I don’t really want to comment on that because I don’t have direct experience with hiring. Maybe HR teams or recruiters would have a better perspective. But I do know, for example, that in the Nordic countries, they’ve implemented a law requiring every company to have at least 40% women.

Now imagine I have my own company, with a stable team that I know works, and suddenly I have to fire someone or hire inexperienced people just to meet a quota? That would probably be pretty uncomfortable for me. But somehow they’ve managed it – and it’s working.

It’s great that women have been given the opportunity and have taken it. And today, it’s quite common there – women work in many traditionally male-dominated roles without anyone finding it strange. But I think the transition must have been quite difficult.

I totally agree with you. How are you perceived by your surroundings, by your friends? Do they sometimes look at you strangely because you’re in IT or are they supportive?

They support me. And I think I’ve already inspired at least one person to go into IT as well. So yes, the support is there and I really appreciate it.

I think it is important to talk about these experiences. Just as you mentioned – women often think that IT is not for them. The societal dialogue is not quite set in that direction yet, but the numbers don’t lie – women are still underrepresented in the field and need to be encouraged. I recently listened to a Czech podcast on the topic of women in IT. There was a female manager talking about how being a woman in IT forces her to be perfect. Not to make mistakes. Do you feel that way too? That you’re under more pressure to do everything flawlessly?

I’ve always had a mindset of avoiding mistakes rather than making one – but that’s about personal preference. If someone wants to look perfect in front of everyone and pretends to handle everything perfectly, they are just making their life unnecessarily complicated. It’s that person’s decision.

All of us make mistakes. What’s important is what a person brings to the team – new ideas, a different perspective, something positive. That’s how I look at it.

And your future plans? Do you plan to stay working in Slovakia or would you like to go abroad someday?

I don’t think about it. I used to think I would have a precise plan – at this age this, at that age that. But life doesn’t usually work according to plans. I also got into this job by complete accident. And maybe it will be like that with other things too. I’ll see what comes – I’m keeping the door open.

That’s a great approach. And now another question – a lot of people think that programmers just sit behind the computer, hunched over, they get fat… Do you have time for other things besides programming?

I try to do a lot of sports. I take care of myself. The mental rest during sports is very important for me. And honestly – I recommend it to everyone.

It is true that most programmers are also gamers. And when you sit behind a computer for 8 hours and then in your free time you’re back behind the computer playing games… that’s a bit much.

You don’t play at all anymore?

No, I don’t. Unfortunately, there’s no time for that anymore. I prefer active recreation.

After leaving work, do you return to unfinished work in your free time? Do you work on any mini-projects of your own? Or do you prefer to watch an online course or YouTube video?

When I have time, I love to program. And especially with my boyfriend, who is literally my mentor in this. He studied theoretical computer science at at the Faculty of Mathematics and Physics and he really teaches me a lot. We often sit down and program together in the evenings – it’s great. And honestly, I recommend pair programming to everyone.

That’s great. We’re slowly coming to the end of our interview – is there anything you’d like to say to women who are thinking about IT or are already there and would like to push themselves more?

The biggest piece of advice is not to compare yourself too much with others. Not to give in to the idea that I’m slower, someone else is further along, that they already know something and I don’t yet. The best comparison is with myself – where I was a month ago, six months ago, a year ago. That’s when you see most how you’ve progressed. And that’s the real motivation, I think.

“The best motivation is to see your own progress.”

And what do you think society could do to be more supportive of women in IT? Should we focus on schools? Kindergartens?

Definitely start as soon as possible. Already in kindergartens and primary schools. Introduce girls to the world of IT. Show them that it’s not just for boys. There’s nothing special about watching a YouTube tutorial on coding instead of a beauty video. Or when you read an article about technology. And the sooner you get into it, the sooner you’ll get interested.

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Podcast: Women in IT – less stereotypes, more opportunities

Zuzana Kocáková

At msg life Slovakia I take care of the company culture, events and I am part of the marketing team. I like a job where I can be creative and contribute to making my colleagues at msg feel good. I regularly prepare for you not only news and interesting things from the world of information technology and insurance, but also from behind the scenes events at msg life Slovakia.